Hosts Nicole Diroff and Autumn Brown reflect on Autumn’s profound conversation with climate chaplain Rabbi Ora Nitkin-Kaner. They explore why radical honesty about our ecological reality is not an act of despair, but the foundation of true hope and agency.
As we navigate a world that feels increasingly like an "extended apocalypse," Nicole and Autumn discuss the "ministry of presence"—the practice of sitting with grief rather than trying to fix it. Their conversation alights on parenting, martial arts, and caring for one another in a world hungry for freedoms. They also dive into the biological "fight or flight" responses triggered by the climate crisis and how we can look to our ancestors and the "more-than-human" world for models of resilience and survival.
In This Episode
- Tending, Mending, Befriending: Shifting away from urgency-based "yelling" toward spiritual care that acknowledges deep overwhelm .
- The More Than Human World: Exploring our identity as one species among millions and learning survival strategies from the ecological world.
- The Sacred Act of Naming: How being honest about our grief and naming the "unknowable" creates a path to communion and hope .
- Practicing Freedom: Insights from Autumn’s martial arts practice on how discipline and collaboration create the capacity for spontaneity and choice .
- Agency in Care: Reclaiming our biological and spiritual drive to both give and receive care as a fundamental tool for resilience .
Next Steps: Practice Spiritual Care
Inspired by the conversation, Autumn and Nicole invite you to engage in these small acts of spiritual care this week:
- Name Your Emotion: Pause long enough to name one specific emotion that climate change brings up for you.
- Share Your Feeling: Take that named emotion and share it with someone you trust.
- Risk Honesty: Find a setting to let others know you are concerned—whether by leading a prayer in your faith community or by writing a letter to your local paper.
- Mini-Rituals: Create a simple line of acknowledgment or a "closing homily" during a daily task or gathering to ground your actions in a larger purpose.
- Connect with Us: Share your own message, reflections, or sparking ideas by emailing podcast@thebtscenter.org or leaving a voice message at 207-200-6986.
Resources Mentioned
- Rabbi Ora Nitkin-Kaner: Climate change chaplain and guest from the previous episode. https://www.exploringapocalypse.com/
- David Abram: American ecologist and philosopher who coined the term "more than human world". https://www.davidabram.org/
- Robin Wall Kimmerer: Author noted for the essay comparing monoculture corn to "enslavement". https://www.robinwallkimmerer.com/
- Lament with Earth: A BTS Center program involving online gatherings for seasonal naming and grieving. https://thebtscenter.org/lament-with-earth-2025-2026/
- The Many: Liturgists and musicians who collaborated on the Lament with Earth offerings. https://www.themanyarehere.com/
- Frances Weller: Author and upcoming guest mentioned in relation to "longing for reciprocity." https://www.francisweller.net/
- How to Survive the End of the World: Autumn Brown’s podcast. https://endoftheworldshow.org/
Coming Up Next
Join us for our next episode, where we speak with Norma Wong (also known as Norma Ryuko Kawelokū Wong Roshi). Norma is a Native Hawaiian and Hakka Zen teacher, the abbot of Anko-in, and an 86th-generation Zen Master. We will explore how she applies Zen and Indigenous values to transformational change in a climate-changed world. Learn more about Norma Wong and her work: https://www.normawong.com/
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